Open Thread: Oracle Hotline

[mithen]

I was in the air pretty much the whole end of last week (both literally and figuratively, I guess!) and so this slipped by me! But I'm back, and even got some good writing done this week, yay! I also sat down and outlined the next nine or ten chapters of both of my long stories, so I feel a little less like I'm going by the seat of my pants, which is a good feeling. I hope the last two weeks have been good to both you and your writing!

--What are your thoughts on non-con and dub-con?

Oh, well. Hm. I suppose the first thought is that people often say there's no real difference between noncon and dubcon, and I agree absolutely in reality. However, in fiction dubcon covers a huge gray area of things that don't exist in reality, like sex pollen or "aliens made them do it," which are frankly some of my favorite tropes. "Forced to do what I want to do" is one of my favorite themes in smut, and one that can only exist in fiction and fantasy, really. Straight-up noncon does very little for me most of the time, but I have no problems with its existence (I'd rather not run across it unwarned, however).

Comments

[prince0froses]

It depends on the threshold for consent, for me. If 'enthusiastic' consent is where the bar is set, as it is for many, an example of real life dubcon that is acceptable (at least to me) is willing obligatory sex - a partner who is not interested on their own engaging in sex because their other half wants it. In terms of fic, I love dubcon for the reasons you described and can only read/stomach certain kinds of noncon without trauma resurfacing (though it can be healing at other times)

[mithen]

I really feel like writing and reading noncon--in all of its variants--can be cathartic or scratch the id just right at the right times. I'm a lot more likely to write it in those cases, I think, just because it's really unlikely a story I didn't write will get all the nuances right without going off the rails into DNW territory.

I hope you're doing well and have weathered any unpleasant phone calls that had to be made!

[me_ya_ri]

Real life, nope, nope, so many varieties of nope. Having been in dub-con situations in RL (I'd consented, enthusiastically, to particular things but the guy in question assumed consent to other things which were... pleasurable but not desired from him or at that time--so dumped his ass when he kept pushing on later instances, though) I tend to be better on dub-con than non-con.

In fiction, well, I've written outright rape down to 'this is kinda pinging my uncomfortable zones of consent' to full on enthusiastic sex pollen / AMTDI tropes. In both fan and original fic. I find myself comfortable writing them all as long as the story is strong and the characters have a chance to cope with it in the story.

Reading it is harder. I don't want non-con or harder dub-con in things I read, especially when it's supposed to be a fluffy story. Yaoi gets me every time on this. So yeah, warnings are very good and the author actually being aware that the pursued until you give in to sex trope is actually not proper consent / verges into dub-con.

Not a worry on my current book, thankfully. No sex in sight anywhere and what subtext there is, is strongly in the 'if only we could have ten minutes alone' variety at best. And it would sort of be enemy sex / hate sex, too. *grin*

Hope your writing keeps going well!

[mithen]

Reading it is harder. I don't want non-con or harder dub-con in things I read, especially when it's supposed to be a fluffy story. Yaoi gets me every time on this. So yeah, warnings are very good and the author actually being aware that the pursued until you give in to sex trope is actually not proper consent / verges into dub-con.

I hadn't even realized that, about writing versus reading. Actually, that's the same as deathfic for me--no problem writing it, but I don't want to read it pretty much ever. Between than and dub/noncon being the same way I felt kind of like a hypocrite, but I think it's more about the amount of control you have over the situation, if that makes sense. As a writer, I'm actively choosing everything that happens and it's going to go exactly as I want--as a reader I can feel shanghaied into something I do not want.

Glad to hear it's not an issue with your book--although I bet it's throwing other issues at you instead! They always do... :) Somewhat ironically, I'm just about to start a sex pollen story! I realized I haven't written one of those for...like five years or so. Huh! And one of my favorite things to write! Though I've written similar things, just not the most literal form...